Raul Delgado left this comment on a previous post.
“Indeed, there will be a time of severe judgment referred to as the Day of the Lord or Day of Wrath or Day of Vengeance. People often confuse this period with the Great Tribulation Period. Here is the distinction: First, the Great Tribulation Period begins with the Abomination of Desolation, which occurs in the middle of Daniel's 70th Week. During the Great Tribulation Period the Church is most severely persecuted by the anti-christ and as such is also referred to as his indignation. Then, at an unknown date and hour, the Great Tribulation Period is cut short for the sake of the elect (the Church), the celestial sign appears and instantly the Rapture occurs. Once this happens, the Day of the Lord (Wrath, Vengeance) gets underway. This is when God's judgment is poured out on the unbelievers on earth. So, to recap, during the Great Tribulation Period, the Church is persecuted by the anti-christ whereas during the Day of the Lord Period the unbelievers are severely judged by God. The Bible makes that distinction quite clearly. Once you accept that truth, then you can begin to construct a more biblical Rapture view. It definitely was the key for me.”
That was the key for me too. Here is a simple outline of Daniel’s 70th week:
Beginning of Daniel's 70th Week
1. Covenant signed (Dan. 9:27)
2. Birth pangs (Mt. 24:8)
Midpoint of the Week
3. Abomination of Desolation/Son of Destruction exalts himself as being God in the
temple (Dan. 9:27, Mt. 24:15, 2 Th. 2:3,4)
4. Great Tribulation/Satan's wrath against Israel and the elect (Mt. 24:21, Rev. 12:12)
Sixth Seal-Natural lights extinguished (Rev. 6:12, Joel 2:31, Mt. 24:29)
5. Day of the Lord's return and our gathering cuts short the Great Tribulation/Satan's
wrath at an hour known only by the Father (Mt. 24:29-31, 36)
Seventh Seal (Rev. 8:1)
6. God's wrath falls on unbelievers (Rev. 8:7)
End of Week plus 30 days (Dan. 12:9)
7. God's wrath culminates at Armageddon (Rev. 15, 16, Rev. 19:11-21)
23 comments:
Nice blog, I have enjoyed reading your postings :)
Hi Candy,
Thanks for dropping by. I've a question for you. Do you see any holes in what I've posted?
Hi Katherine,
I am of the prewrath/post trib view as well. I have not settled on the exact meanings of any timelines. The only timeline I have seen specified for sure is the 1290 days between the ending of the daily sacrifices and the AOD. The other timeline I see for sure is the days between the Ending of the daily sacrifices, and the blessings to those who wait until 1335 days. I can only suspect the Lord will rescue his elite at that time. I find it interesting that in the beginning of Rev, no one is qualified to open the seals, then suddenly the Lamb appears, and begins opening them. I am not sure we know for sure how long passes between the opening of the first 5 seals.
What I have come to believe though, are the seals are opened by Jesus. Each seal is followed by the trumpet, and this is why they parallel. When Jesus opens a seal, the Angel holding a trump of the same number, is released to sound it, and that puts it forth under Jesus's authority. The fact that it never says how long between each seal and trump, really does not mean they couldn't have happened over a long period of time. But when we get to the 6th seal, more is focused on timing. I am still cross referencing and studying this myself. I haven't gotten much grasp on the bowls yet. I think it is only fair to tell you, I do not use the word rapture, but translated instead. :)
Candy,
I believe that the Seals, Trumpets, and Bowls/Vials are not parallel. But rather, they follow a sequential or chronological pattern. Post-Tribulationalism requires them to be parallel in order for their view to work. However, Pre-Wrath teaches a sequential or chronological order. I believe this to be the correct view. Yes, Jesus, Himself is the only one worthy to open the Seals one by one. When the 6th Seal is opened the Great Tribulation of the Church ends and the Church meets Jesus in the air. The 144,000 Jews are sealed and the Day of the Lord/Wrath/Vengeance gets underway. Now, the 7th Seal, which is the Day of the Lord or Day of His Wrath period, contains the 7 Trumpet and 7 Bowl Judgments. The 7 Trumpet Judgments are blown sequentially. Once the 7th Trumpet is sounded, then finally the 7 Bowl/Vial Judgments are poured out. When the last of these is poured out, His Day of Wrath is completed. So you see the seals, trumpets, and bowls are not parallel. Because if you lay them all out, you'll realize that some things don't check out at all. I would say that this is one of the main weaknesses of Post-Tribulationalism. In fact, they should label their view as Post-Daniel's 70th Period, because that is what they really believe. They incorrectly assume that the Great Tribulation Period lasts 3.5 years. Scripture never teaches that. Instead scriputure tells us that the Great Tribulation is cut short for the sake of the elect, the Church. So, it will last less than 3.5 years. Because, concerning the second half of Daniel's 70th Period, one must make allowance for both the Great Tribulation Period AND the Day of the Lord or Wrath Period. Together, they compose the time, times, and half a time or 3.5 years.
Just my thoughts, Raul
Hi Raul,
I actually did not say the bowls were parallel, and I am leaning toward those being a separate event after the elite are translated. :)
Hi Candy,
The reason prewrath sees the trumpets following the seals and then the bowls following the trumpets is because of this type of wording:
Rev. 6:1: "and I saw when"
Rev. 7:1: "After this"
Rev. 7:9: "After these things I looked"
The trumpets contain the wrath of God. If they run concurrent with the seals, that means God is pouring out His wrath on the elect. He has promised us that we are not destined for His wrath.
Rev. 6 are the seals.
Rev. 7 you see the sealing of the 144,000 for protection from God's wrath and then you see the elect out of the great tribulation standing before the throne and before the Lamb.
Rev. 8 the trumpets commence with God's wrath.
If you take Revelation at simple face value, it flows chronologically. There are places though where it backs up and gives greater detail, such as chs. 12-14 and chs. 17-18.
Hope this helps.
Candy,
My bad. So, you believe that the Seals and Trumpets are parallel, but not the Bowls? Is that correct?
Hi Raul, yes, I am leaning that way. This has been a big focus for me lately. I started trying to understand why the seals, and the trumps both end with the DOTL. I started wondering if the bowls are a short overview, and the trumpets explain in more detail. I am not saying for sure this is correct, but I think it should be considered. The bowls are different.
I am sorry, I did not mean the bowls were a short view, but the seals were. (Doh)
Well, I am back to the drawing board. Deeper research has caused me to throw that theory out! LOL. Too much to post why, but E-sword is the best. It really helps to compare everything visually at the same time. Thanks for letting me bounce that off on unjudging ears :)
You are always welcome here Candy. Have you checked out Bible Fragances? I have found Ron Wallace to be extremely helpful. I should download E-sword onto my computer.
Take care and visit often!
Thanks Katherine, I will check that out!
Thanks to you also Raul, your explanation helped a lot. What do either of you make out about the 1/2 hour of silence after the 7th seal?
Here's Ron Wallace's explanation, which I believe has great merit:
"The 7th seal (Rev. 8:1) paves the way for God's wrath to be poured out on the world. This awesome event is prefaced by a 1/2 hour of silence in heaven which probably speaks of the intensity of what is about to take place. Rev. 8:1"
I believe everyone in heaven is going to be awestruck by silence because of what is about to occur on the earth.
Click here for Ron's entire article.
Katherine,
I just went and checked out your blog. Very well done. It is so nice to see orderly discussions going on.
Do you allow rebuttals done at your site or do you delete them?
Are people allowed to post off-topic comments on your blog, or are they limited to pre-wrath topics only?
I also went to the Earthquake Resurrection website done by Mr. Lowe. He has a nice discussion going on his site also. I was surprised to see many posters here on Joel's blog there also. Makes me wonder why? Possibly because there isn't much interest and the people who are interested don't post on a frequent enough basis to keep the discussion growing. Well, it is not any of my business.
Thank you for being polite and not being obnoxious when you visit here at Joels.
bab
Hi Bab,
My heart is to bring honor to the Lord. I do not delete rebuttals and off-topic comments are welcome. If you read the comments in my first post we had some good discussions going on. Thanks so much for dropping in.
Kathy
Candy,
Concerning the 1/2 hour of silence. It certainly is momentous and significant when we consider the following:
Revelation 4:8 Each of the four living creatures had six wings and was covered with eyes all around, even under his wings. Day and night they never stop saying: "Holy, holy, holy is the Lord God Almighty, who was, and is, and is to come."
Imagine this, a continual and perpetual worship and praise directed at God. Day and night they say, "Holy, holy, holy... Someone once said that God's Holiness is so great and multi-dimensional that it is like the grandest diamond that you can examine from different angles and yet, each time you gaze upon it, you discover its multi-faceted beauty. It is the same with God, these creatures continually declare His Holiness because it is so grand that they must keep repeating it over and over in an effort to quantify it. But, once the 7th Seal is opened, there is suddenly a complete silence. What could possibly bring all this worship and praise to a complete halt? You see, the heavenly host takes a collective breath in anticipation of His Wrath that is about to be poured out on earth and its inhabitants. The OT Prophets referred it as a day(period) of gloom, anger, and vengeance. The First Trumpet initiates His time of wrath. Incidently, the last Bowl or Vial concludes His time of Wrath.
Raul,
I always enjoy the insights you bring here. That is beautiful! It certainly is going to be a stunning moment as silence sweeps through heaven in anticipation of what is about to occur on earth.
Thank you for your input Raul and Katherine!
Hi Candy,
Do let us know how the studying is going.
Kathy
Hi Kathy,
I finally completed my study, and I agree that these events are NOT parallel. Great to see you again, and thanks Raul for your insights. :)
Good to hear from you Candy and glad to hear that you've been continuing in your studies. So you see the Great Tribulation beginning after the abomination of desolation and being cut off by the return of Christ? This being an unprecedented period of intense affliction and pressure by Satan via Antichrist against Israel and the elect. At some unknown day and hour the natural lights will go out announcing the arrival of the Day of the Lord and Christ will appear in the sky with His angels to rescue and gather the elect. The dead in Christ are raised at this time also and all will then meet the Lord in the air to forever be with Him. Glorious Day! Blessed Hope! Once the 144,000 are sealed, the Day of the Lord's wrath will commence. That is what I keep coming up with. That is what I understand as the truth regarding the return of Christ and the intense persecution that will precede it. Will we see the signs of Christ's return in our lifetime? I don't know, but now is the time to be preparing for it and encouraging others to so as well.
I hope to post new entries after my vacation which begins tomorrow. Do visit again and say hi.
Blessings to you Candy!
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