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Does the Day of the Lord include the Tribulation?
Joel 2:31: "The sun will be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, BEFORE the great and awesome day of the LORD comes.
Matthew 24:29: "But immediately AFTER the tribulation of those days THE SUN WILL BE DARKENED, AND THE MOON WILL NOT GIVE ITS LIGHT, AND THE STARS WILL FALL from the sky, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken..."
Joel places the triple cosmic sign before the day of the LORD. Matthew places it immediately after the tribulation. Therefore, the day of the LORD does not include the tribulation but occurs after the tribulation.
Matthew 24:29: "But immediately AFTER the tribulation of those days THE SUN WILL BE DARKENED, AND THE MOON WILL NOT GIVE ITS LIGHT, AND THE STARS WILL FALL from the sky, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken..."
Joel places the triple cosmic sign before the day of the LORD. Matthew places it immediately after the tribulation. Therefore, the day of the LORD does not include the tribulation but occurs after the tribulation.
Why does the prewrath position hold to the view that the Church is in Matthew 24?
At the very end of Matthew in chapter twenty-eight, in the last verse, Jesus says to His disciples, "...and lo, I am with you (i.e. the Church) always, even to the end of the age."
Alan Kurschner points out on his November 16th post at Prewrath Rapture Dot Com, "The end of the age has not ceased before the events in the Olivet Discourse (Matthew 24:14) therefore the Church age has not come to fruition before the events in the Olivet Discourse."
Alan Kurschner points out on his November 16th post at Prewrath Rapture Dot Com, "The end of the age has not ceased before the events in the Olivet Discourse (Matthew 24:14) therefore the Church age has not come to fruition before the events in the Olivet Discourse."
“Why does the prewrath position hold to the view that the entire 70th week of Daniel does not contain God’s wrath?”
Let’s first look at Mt. 24.
In verse 16 Jesus gives instructions to those who see the abomination of desolation spoken of by
Why?
Because following that “there will be a great tribulation, such as has not occurred since the beginning of the world until now, nor ever shall.” (Mt. 24:21)
The Greek word used for tribulation in this verse is “thlipsis”. It can be translated as pressure, affliction, anguish, persecution, or tribulation as it is here.
Who is going to suffer during this time of unprecedented pressure and affliction?
Revelation
Who is responsible for this affliction?
In Revelation 12:7-9 we learn of a coming war:
“And there was war in heaven, Michael and his angels waging war with the dragon (Satan). And the dragon and his angels waged war, and they were not strong enough, and there was no longer a place found for them in heaven. And the great dragon was thrown down, the serpent of old who is called the devil and Satan, who deceives the whole world; he was thrown down to the earth, and his angels were thrown down with him.”
In Rev. 12:12 the heavens are told to rejoice. Then a woe is given to the earth and the sea. Why? “…because the devil has come down to you, having great WRATH, knowing that he has only a short time.”
Revelation
This time of affliction is clearly the result of Satan’s oppression via the beast. In Revelation 13 we are told that the dragon (Satan) gives the beast his power and those who do not worship the image of the beast are killed.
Based on these passages, the prewrath position views the affliction of Israel and then the genuine Christians, those who hold to the testimony of Jesus, not those who fall away during the great tribulation of Mt. 24, as coming from Satan.
When the Lamb breaks the fifth seal in Revelation 6:9 John sees underneath the altar the souls of those who had been slain because of their testimony. These souls hold to their testimony of Jesus. The beast kills them for refusing to worship his image. They cry out with a loud voice and ask the Lord how long until He avenges their blood. They are not confused. These souls recognize that their deaths were not a result of the wrath of the Lamb. He tells them to wait a little while longer. When the Lamb breaks the sixth seal, the sun will go black, the moon will become like blood, the sky will split apart and the earth dwellers will see Him who sits on the throne and the Lamb. They desire for the rocks to fall on them and hide them. Why? Revelation
Luke 21:25,26: “And there will be signs in the sun, moon, and stars, and upon the earth dismay among the nations, in perplexity at the roaring of the sea and the waves, men fainting from fear and the expectation of the things which are coming upon the world; for the powers of the heavens will be shaken.”
Romans 12:19b: “Vengeance is mine, I will repay, says the Lord.”
1 Thessalonians 1:6-8: “For after all it is only just for God to repay with affliction those who afflict you, and to give relief to you who are afflicted and to us as well when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with His mighty angels in flaming fire, dealing out retribution to those who do not know God and to those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus.”
The great tribulation is Satan’s wrath on believers, those who obey the gospel of the Lord Jesus. God’s wrath is aimed at unbelievers, those who do not obey the gospel of the Lord Jesus and give their allegiance to the beast.
On a day and hour known only by the Father, His Son will return and cut short the affliction against His elect. The natural lights will go out and the stars will fall from the sky as it splits apart. The glory of the Son will radiate across the sky. He will send forth His angels with a great trumpet and they will gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of the sky to the other. (Mt. 24:22, 29-31, 36)
Luke 21:27,28: “And then they will see the Son of Man coming in a cloud with power and great glory. But when these things begin to take place, straighten up your heads, because your redemption is drawing near.”
The elect will be rescued, and then God’s wrath will fall…
Not all of
Why do a “Why Does the Prewrath Position Hold to This?” Series?
If someone had asked me a year ago what my position was on the timing of the rapture I would have said, “Pretrib”. If asked why I would’ve said, “Because it’s what the Bible teaches.” And for about thirty years prior to that I would’ve answered the same way. After all, I grew up in doctrinally sound churches and I went to a good Bible college that held to the pretrib position.
If I were then asked to show where in the Bible it says the church is raptured before the tribulation I would have probably said, “Well, it says in the Bible we are not appointed to wrath and since the tribulation is God’s wrath He will rapture us out of here.” I would’ve been pretty proud of myself.
If I were asked those same questions today would I respond the same way? The answer is a resounding no! It was a year ago that I was encouraged by a fellow believer at my church to really become a Berean. This person has an amazing knowledge of the Scriptures. Because of that I embarked on a study of my own looking at
What did God say was the purpose for the sun, moon, and stars?
In Gen. 1:14, “…God said, “Let there be lights in the expanse of the heavens to separate the day from the night, and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days and years…”
It is the second purpose stated, “for signs”, that I’d like to zero in on.
In Matthew 24:29, Joel 2:30,31, and Revelation 6:12,13 we see a radical change take place in what we would view as the regular and normal function of the sun, moon and stars. In the Mt. 24 account the sun is darkened, the moon will not give its light, and the stars will fall from the sky. The Joel 2 account says that God will display wonders in the sky and on the earth. What will be seen? Blood, fire, and columns of smoke and the sun will be turned into darkness and the moon into blood. In the Rev. 6 account, at the opening of the sixth seal, John sees the sun become black as sackcloth, the whole moon become like blood, and the stars fall from the sky.
Wow! What is about to occur when the natural function of these heavenly bodies
are so drastically altered? What do they signal when they are extinguished?
Joel
THE GREAT AND AWESOME DAY OF THE LORD!
Can we know when in relation to
Mt. 24:29 places the triple sign of the sun, moon, and stars after the abomination of desolation. From
What is involved in the Day of the Lord?
Going back to 2 Th. 2,
“Now we request you, brethren, with regard to the coming (parousia/presence) of our Lord Jesus Christ, and our gathering together to Him, that you may not be quickly shaken from your composure or be disturbed either by a spirit or a message or a letter as if from us, to the effect that the day of the Lord has come.”
If you go back to Matthew 24:29, the triple signs announcing the day of the Lord occur immediately after the tribulation.
Mt. 24:29: “But immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light, and the stars will fall from the sky, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken,”
Mt. 24:30: “and then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in the sky, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of the sky with power and great glory.”
Mt. 24:31: “And He will send forth His angels with a great trumpet and they will gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of the sky to the other.”
CHRIST’S COMING AND OUR GATHERING INITIATES THE DAY OF THE LORD!
Mt. 24 is nothing other than a rapture passage. Verse 36 says “But of that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels of heaven, nor the Son, but the Father alone.
We can know the season of Christ’s return and our gathering, after the abomination of desolation, immediately after the tribulation. We have the triple sign of the sun, moon, and stars to signal when His presence and our gathering is imminent, but only the Father knows the exact day and hour.
What happens then after we are gathered? In Rev. 6:12,13 the triple signs occur at the opening of the sixth seal announcing the day of the Lord. Vv. 15-17 tells us that kings, great men, commanders, the rich, slaves and free men hide themselves among the rocks because they recognize the great day of the Lamb’s wrath has come.
Mt. 24:22 says the days of great tribulation are cut short for the sake of the elect. Christ gathers us via the angels. The remainder of
Isaiah 2:19: “And men will go into caves of the rocks, and into holes of the ground before the terror of the Lord, and before the splendor of His majesty, when He arises to make the earth tremble.”
Isaiah 13:9 “Behold, the day of the Lord is coming, cruel, with fury and burning anger, to make the land a desolation; and He will exterminate sinners from it.”
Luke 21:25-27also records the triple sign of the sun, moon, and stars:
“And there will be signs in the sun and moon and stars, and upon the earth dismay among the nations, in perplexity at the roaring of the sea and the waves, men fainting from fear and expectation of the things which are coming upon the world; (Christ is about to manifest His presence, gather the elect, and then pour out His wrath) for the powers of the heavens will be shaken. And then they will see the Son of Man coming in a cloud with power and great glory."
“BUT WHEN THESE THINGS BEGIN TO
A single star announced His first coming and led a small group of men to the Savior. At His return the sign will be all encompassing, the sun and moon will turn off, the stars will fall from the sky, His glory will radiate as lightening flashes from the east to the west, and every eye shall behold Him! (Mt. 24:27, Rev. 1:7)
(Rev. 6:12 tells us there's a really big earthquake too!)Are the Day of the Lord and the Great Tribulation speaking of the same thing?
Raul Delgado left this comment on a previous post.
“Indeed, there will be a time of severe judgment referred to as the Day of the Lord or Day of Wrath or Day of Vengeance. People often confuse this period with the Great Tribulation Period. Here is the distinction: First, the Great Tribulation Period begins with the Abomination of Desolation, which occurs in the middle of Daniel's 70th Week. During the Great Tribulation Period the Church is most severely persecuted by the anti-christ and as such is also referred to as his indignation. Then, at an unknown date and hour, the Great Tribulation Period is cut short for the sake of the elect (the Church), the celestial sign appears and instantly the Rapture occurs. Once this happens, the Day of the Lord (Wrath, Vengeance) gets underway. This is when God's judgment is poured out on the unbelievers on earth. So, to recap, during the Great Tribulation Period, the Church is persecuted by the anti-christ whereas during the Day of the Lord Period the unbelievers are severely judged by God. The Bible makes that distinction quite clearly. Once you accept that truth, then you can begin to construct a more biblical Rapture view. It definitely was the key for me.”
That was the key for me too. Here is a simple outline of Daniel’s 70th week:
Beginning of Daniel's 70th Week
1. Covenant signed (Dan. 9:27)
2. Birth pangs (Mt. 24:8)
Midpoint of the Week
3. Abomination of Desolation/Son of Destruction exalts himself as being God in the
temple (Dan. 9:27, Mt. 24:15, 2 Th. 2:3,4)
4. Great Tribulation/Satan's wrath against Israel and the elect (Mt. 24:21, Rev. 12:12)
Sixth Seal-Natural lights extinguished (Rev. 6:12, Joel 2:31, Mt. 24:29)
5. Day of the Lord's return and our gathering cuts short the Great Tribulation/Satan's
wrath at an hour known only by the Father (Mt. 24:29-31, 36)
Seventh Seal (Rev. 8:1)
6. God's wrath falls on unbelievers (Rev. 8:7)
End of Week plus 30 days (Dan. 12:9)
7. God's wrath culminates at Armageddon (Rev. 15, 16, Rev. 19:11-21)
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